#99 Congrats, You’re the Leader Now: How to Show Up, Not Just Step Up

In this powerful and thought-provoking episode of Mindset Mastery Moments, Dr. Alisa Whyte sits down with Noel Massie — former Vice President of Operations at UPS and author of Congrats! You’ve Been Promoted — for a masterclass on real leadership.

Together, they unpack the journey from being a high-performing employee to becoming an effective, values-driven leader. Noel shares the unseen challenges newly promoted leaders face, including ethical dilemmas, trust-building, team dynamics, and navigating the balance between accountability and empathy. Through candid stories and deeply reflective insights, this conversation is a blueprint for anyone who wants to lead with integrity, emotional intelligence, and purpose.

From operational excellence to community engagement and mentorship, Dr. Alisa and Noel explore the lifelong responsibility of leadership — not as a title, but as a mindset. Whether you're newly promoted, aspiring to lead, or mentoring others, this episode is filled with practical takeaways that will elevate your leadership game.

Key Takeaways:

• Promotions require more than performance — they demand preparation.
• Leadership is about influencing behavior without force.
• Integrity is the cornerstone of sustainable leadership.
• Employees leave managers, not companies.
• Coaching, feedback, and trust are the building blocks of team success.
• Emotional awareness and empathy are not soft skills — they’re survival skills for today’s leaders.
• Leadership must be intentional, values-driven, and rooted in communication.
• Diverse mentorship and community engagement expand a leader’s impact.

Connect with Noel Massie:

🌐 Website: www.noelmassie.com
📩 Media Contact: Corey Newman – Newman.Coordinator@newmancom.com
🎓 Claim Your Free Masterclass or Bonus: https://noelmassie.com/choose-your-bonus-package/#masterclass

🎧 Listen now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite platform:
 👉 https://mindsetmasterymoments.com/#stream-now

📺 Watch the full video episode on YouTube

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:01

Welcome to Mindset Mastery Moments, the best growth mindset podcast recognized by million podcasts and ranked as a top mindset podcast by Feedspot. We're proud to be in the top 1% on ListenNotes. Join Dr. Alyssa White as we explore powerful insights and strategies to elevate your mindset. Let's dive in. Congrats, you're a leader now. How

SPEAKER_02: 0:31

to show up, not just step up. What every new leader needs to know. Today, we are going into a massive conversation, disruptors. Welcome back to another episode of Mindset Mastery Moments. Have you ever gotten a promotion and feel like everyone's cheering, but on the inside you're thinking, uh, what did I just walk into? Well, today's episode is for the newly promoted, the soon to be promoted, and honestly, the leaders who were promoted years ago, but never got the support they needed to truly grow into the role. My guest today knows that feeling oh so well. He went from working part-time during college to overseeing over 200,000. I didn't say 200. I said 200,000 employees as the vice president of operations at UPS. And he did not just climb. He led. Now he pours that wisdom into a timely and very practical book called Congrats, you've been promoted. He's a board member, a mentor, a multi-award winning leader, and a fierce advocate for value-based leadership. Ladies and gentlemen, here at the Mindset Mastery Moments podcast, all over the globe, we are welcoming the incredible Mr. Noel Massey to the show. Mr. Noel, welcome to Mindset Mastery Moments. We're so happy to have you.

SPEAKER_01: 2:00

Well, Dr. White, thanks for having me. I'm really excited to be on your show with you and your listeners today. And, you know, hopefully over the next few minutes, we can give them something that they can use in their lives, whether it be personal or professional for building a success.

SPEAKER_02: 2:19

Absolutely. I know we will. I love your book. I love the title when I first see it. I was like, yes, duh. It said, congrats, you've been promoted. And I'm like, yeah, isn't that what everybody wants in some area of their life, whether it's at a job in their life. Some people want to go from being single to being married. Some people want to go from being dating to everybody seeking a promotion from having a Toyota to driving a Tesla. I don't know. You pick a car, right? So promotion is always what we all seek. But before we dive into there, I just give the audience a little bit about what you've done and a little bit about where you've been. But in your own words, Mr. Massey, tell us who you are, what you do, and why you do it.

SPEAKER_01: 3:01

Well, thanks for that. I won't make this too long, but I wrote this book. That'll be a thing, right? I wrote this book based, obviously, on a very long journey in leadership through my life.

SPEAKER_03: 3:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 3:15

And when you hear my background, Yes, I did spend the majority of my career at UPS over 40 years going from a college student, employee. Really, I began working there to get my degree candidly. That was never the goal for me was to stay because after my college career was ending, I was an electrical engineering student at San Jose State University. I was offered a job. I had done an internship at IBM for a year as a lab tech. Hewlett Packard was recruiting me. My older brother to this day is still an electrical engineer. But that being said, I saw myself in that space. But I have been at UPS for three years and I have been in a supervisory capacity during that time while I was paying for my education. And however, when I gave notice that I was moving on to another company, they put up a stop sign and said, oh, wait a minute. You know, we really love having you here. We love what you're doing. We'd like to promote you. and make you a partner in the company, which is what happened in 1980. And I never looked back, you know. And I went from being a frontline supervisor, which I still hold as the most formative time in my life of leadership, to being a manager with 400 or 500 employees at that time, to a division manager with managers under me. And then in the mid-'90s, I went to Philadelphia and became the COO for Eastern Pennsylvania and South Jersey. And in 97, I was promoted to a president's position.

SPEAKER_03: 4:47

And

SPEAKER_01: 4:47

as a president, I had five different business units over that time from Chicago to Virginia to California. And I was about to sunset and move on to other things at that point. You know, once I had achieved what I achieved, I was at that point in my mid-50s. But the COO and the CEO asked if I'd stay. And so that's when they wanted me to be the vice president of U.S. delivery operations for UPS. And in that capacity, I was guiding and steering our strategy and tactics in our day-to-day operation with 17 presidents I would work with and their teams throughout the U.S. And the fact of the matter is what I saw was not something new. You know, baby boomers were leaving and the mantle was being handed over to the millennials and the individuals are coming into the workplace and Derailment happens within the first two to three years for someone who's promoted into a leadership capacity, their first leadership capacity, that is. And you don't take a high potential person who has done just a great job and just lose them, right? You don't do that to just lose them. So my book actually was a thought I had really probably about seven or eight years before I actually wrote the book because I was the board chairman, chairman of the board for the Los Angeles Chamber of Commerce, so my peer group, we would talk to other presidents, general managers about the challenges, and they always came back to succession planning, newly promoted people, and the high rate of turnover in that space. So my book was a direct outgrowth of that phenomena, quite frankly. And so that's what I decided to do, was to write this book, which took over three years, and a lot of ideation, working with a number of people, on the professional side. And so finally, last month in June, it was released. There you have it. Congrats. You've been promoted. Emerge.

SPEAKER_02: 6:46

Yes, and congratulations on that. It truly is a masterpiece. I haven't finished it in its entirety, but definitely had a read, and it is solid. It was well worth the three years, and I'm pretty sure that was a remarkable journey for you as well. Let's jump into the whole concept of promotions. Most people, as I said earlier, usually see it as a win. But you and I know, Mr. Massey, that celebration comes right before that storm. What made you decide this was the moment that you wanted to write the book? I mean, you started three years ago, but you knew that you needed to write this book. What was your burning desire to bring this to the world?

SPEAKER_01: 7:26

Well, there was a couple of things. And, you know, number one, you know, I look at life through the lens of serving. And I don't say that softly. I say that very, very strongly, actually, that, you know, when it's all said and done, Your life will be measured by what you gave, not what you got. And I have actually used that for the last 35 years when I'm speaking on any level that, you know, I heard this quote. And this quote is actually not mine. You know, I'm not going to take credit for it. It came from the founder of UPS, James E. Casey. I believe he was one of the great entrepreneurs in the history of the United States. He doesn't get that kind of notoriety because he was a very humble man. He was a very humble person. Irish-American and, you know, to turn of the century, if you were Irish, it was kind of a tough road to hoe. But Jim founded the company in 1907 and having experienced a tough life on the East Coast, you know, his father took him to Seattle. And at the age of 19, he founded UPS. But he was a very wise person. He had a lot of quotes. And one of my favorite is what I'm about to share, and that is you can't hope to get more than you give. What does that even mean? It means that it's universal. If you don't put into something what is required to accomplish that something, why should you get something out of it? So think about it in a small dimension. You know, if you expect to grow wealth, then you need to save. If you don't save, don't expect to have that later. If you have someone working for you, If they come in as a talent, that's what they are. They're not fully developed. You know, teams, I love using sports teams as metaphors. And the fact of the matter is, why do these teams, when they bring new rookie players on, whether it's basketball or football or hockey, it doesn't matter, they invest so heavily in the development of that person. Because they understand that without that investment, they won't get a return. They understand that. They understand that development... And investment in development is very critical to success. So I wrote this book with that mindset for people that are small business owners or presidents. It doesn't really matter. You can be a donut shop or a Fortune 50 company. Here's something that happens, Dr. White, in every business model. From the small business model to the Fortune 50 company, someone's always getting promoted. Someone's got to lead the front line. The flesh and bone of an organization are the people on the ground. Yes. Not in the C-suites I sat in, and I went from the bottom to the C-suite. They're not. I could come up with the greatest strategy ever. But you know what? Culture in an organization is built at the top, but it's executed at the bottom, okay? And if you don't invest in your team with value-based leadership, if you don't intentionally lead them in the way you would like them to be as members of your organization, it's not going to happen. Not going to happen. So I wrote the book to give people something as a starting point because it's not the end all be all. I'll be the first to say that. But foundationally, the base of a home is a foundation. Then you start putting up the walls and the rest of it. So you can't hope to get more than you give. It's intended to guide the reader to the narrative that you need to take ownership, number one, the newly promoted person for your development because you own it. And the business owner needs to have congruence with you in developing you. And by both parties reading the book, they gain congruence, right? And now we see it through the same lens when you're talking about value-based leadership. So that was really the impetus in a longer fashion for the book.

SPEAKER_02: 11:13

Oh, my goodness. I love it. And that's what I love, the practicality of the book to the point where I know you do... I know you're consulting with firms or teams at this point, right? Or you're getting ready to, because that congruence with the owner or the C-suite executives and the people who get the work done, there is such, it's siloed. There's no accountability a lot of times. I mean, you can't, I always, you know, as a middle manager, the only company I've made it to be a CEO of are the ones I own and run. over the years, whether it was here in the U.S. or in South America, where I'm from. But I made it to senior management and a lot of middle management. And so I am the translator and the facilitator a lot of times of what I call chaos.

SPEAKER_01: 12:11

Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's what happens.

SPEAKER_02: 12:13

And as dynamic as I want to be invested in myself, growing as a leader, My hands were strapped, but I knew better, so I did better to create some level of cushion for both sides. It just felt like sides too many of the times, but that congruence is so very well needed, and that value, and what I hear a lot of, and this is where I would love for you to stress on, or you give us feedback on, is what are your thoughts about strategy when it comes to operations? Because this is your wheelhouse right here. What would you describe a template that is very simple for any level of operations in any successful organization where that congruence is present?

SPEAKER_01: 13:04

Well, I think what you just said, I could talk about that for a long time. But when you're in a supply chain environment, I have to use You know, that's probably one of the best examples to use in any event because it's spontaneous, it's unpredictable. You know, the one thing I would say when I would do a talk at a conference is the one thing about a supply chain is it's invisible to people, but it's like the oxygen in the room. If the oxygen in the room disappeared, okay, you would choke. Well, if the supply chain stopped, If no trains move tomorrow, no over-the-road tractor trailers, no aircraft, nothing. If nothing moved, then supermarkets wouldn't have food in them. Retail outlets wouldn't have products to sell. On and on and on and on. The supply chain is the oxygen of the economy. And when you get disruptions in that, when you get disruptions in that, hurricanes, floods, and we've seen Recently, examples of this. We had to be so focused on our people understanding execution of the plan. What are we going to do? How are we going to do it? And all the time, if the people who are going to execute the plan don't understand The plan is going to fail. Involving your people in the design work. And I talk about this in the book a little bit. Yeah. I give an example of a manager and it was during a hurricane. And he was doing what he was supposed to do. The organization has sent down all of these orders and parameters, blah, blah, blah. And he was going to administer them. And I just happened to be attending his meeting. And he immediately identified that there was a problem. Because you can always see a problem. The signs will show up. People will roll their eyes. They'll start shaking their heads in disagreement. It might not be vocal. And this manager was astute enough to go, whoa, wait a minute, wait a minute. You know, I already see there's some issue here. And so he called on a person with like 30 years or so. And the person stood up and said, we've been through the hurricane too. Okay. I had a tough time getting to work today. And you have this, this operational change where we need to come in an hour early. Well, you know, We can't just do that. And so he said, you know what? You're right. I need to take a step back. We have an objective to accomplish. Hospitals are dependent on us. Nursing homes, life-saving situations are out there. So I'd like the five volunteer, employee volunteers to help design the plans we're going to use. They did that. And the next day, they delivered that information to the team. It was over, you know, 100 employees. And it went like clockwork, right? Because here's the fundamental truth. When you talk about operational execution, people support the things they help to create. It's just a natural law. When people take on, when they're involved in the creation of something, I mean, it's going to go Way better than if you just handed it to them. And if you're an organization, you know what you want. I don't care if you make donuts. You want to be able to put out the best donut possible. So if you involve your people in the process, they're just going to do it better for you. And the other thing I would say, Dr. White, is the way that I would articulate that so that there was always congruence between me and the organization components I was responsible for, is I would say this to the presidents, to the mid-managers and to the people on the floor. Keep the line straight. This is how we're going to operate, team. Keep the line straight. We have procedures and we have policies and we're not going to be making stuff up. When drama happens and hurricanes are happening and floods are happening, everyone needs to follow all the protocols that keep people safe, that keep people out of harm's way. Keep the line straight. We're not going to be making stuff up. If you have a great idea, bring it to the table so we can ideate that thing out and we may incorporate it into how we're going to get it done, but keep the line straight. And that's about the process side of the position. And then finally, there's going to be a little bit long-winded on this. Oh, no.

SPEAKER_02: 17:14

You're giving us so much value.

SPEAKER_01: 17:16

This is very important. Yes. There is no procedure in an operating room or in a supply chain company or in a manufacturing environment where someone hasn't created the process, right? Here's how we're going to develop X. When this is working perfectly for us, it looks like this. And the one thing that's really important is that everyone has congruence on what that is. Like, what is the proper way to do this? Keep the lines straight. And so when everyone knows that this A, B, C, D, that's the correct way, right? Not A, F, G, Y. Because you see that go on. People love shortcuts. And the only thing a shortcut ever does is it shortcuts the person's opportunity to be excellent. That's what a shortcut is. It never shortcuts the quality. I mean, it just hurts that stuff. So when intentional leadership is on the table, and you're the leader, you're the business owner, and you talk to your people in normal language, you go, okay, team, just keep the line straight. Okay, team. And we didn't talk about the values part of this, but this is concurrent with that. In the book, I talk about the need for leaders and business owners to intentionally articulate the values of the organization.

SPEAKER_02: 18:41

Come on.

SPEAKER_01: 18:42

Don't assume your people all know we're going to have integrity. You say to your team on some regular basis, when the opportunity is there, you always say it, that in our business, we're going to have a long day. We're going to have a hard day. We're going to have some really tough days, some exhausting days. But here's the day we're never having, team, the one that has no integrity in it. We're never having a day where integrity has left the room. We're always having integrity. Listen, team, we're going to always have ethical days. We're never having a day where we're unethical to anybody, anyhow, anytime. Ethical behavior means honorable conduct towards others. Understand, before we... compromise any part of those things we give the benefit of the doubt to the client but we will never have a day where they believe we've been unethical or acted without integrity it's not happening when the leader is saying that stuff

SPEAKER_02: 19:37

come on now

SPEAKER_01: 19:38

is there normal language not because we're having a meeting and something went wrong that's reactive behavior right now see that you went And we coach Dr. White in the John Maxwell Theater, right? Which is a value-based environment. I'm a Stephen Covey fan. And Stephen Covey talks about in The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, the first habit is being proactive, not reactive, being proactive, right? So the book is really intended to connect values with tactics, right? And intentionally, and I can't say that word enough, intentional. intentional. You know, if your listeners get anything from me in this episode, I want to reinforce that you need to be intentional in your leadership environment. Don't be assumptive ever. Don't ever assume because you have integrity, your people are going to just have it. Don't work like that. I read this statistic and it's in the book. 40% of employees in the United States believe at some point they have been asked to behave unethically.

SPEAKER_03: 20:46

20%. That part.

SPEAKER_02: 20:50

Exactly, exactly. I know I've been asked, and that's where I have a problem because I refuse. Only because I would rather be able to go to sleep at night than to keep a paycheck. That is just who I was raised to be, right?

SPEAKER_03: 21:08

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 21:09

But there have been times too, even though I've been raised to be that way, and that is my own personal value, that I was asked to be and moved quickly and didn't realize it was until after because it happened so naturally for the one who's over me and it's actually embedded in the fabric of our operational system and procedure.

SPEAKER_01: 21:34

That's right. And I talk about that as well because you talk about having been in that situation. Most young leaders will find themselves in that place at some point. And so I give some coaching within the book because leadership is coaching. Leadership is the ability to influence the behavior of a group or an individual without coercion. And I want to really reinforce that without coercion. The minute you introduce coercion to get a group or an individual to do something, you have left the role of you are using coercion. That is not leadership. Now, having said that, most leaders will find themselves in a situation that's questionable. And this is what, and my son, I have a son, one's a doctor, he's 32, the other one's a behavioral therapist, he's 30. And when they were growing up as young children, and now they're young men, old men, you know, they would say, this is the one thing if I said, hey guys, if there's any question, they would respond to me, dad, there's no question. If there's any doubt, there's no doubt, okay? If you're not comfortable, don't do it, okay? If you find yourself in a situation where you're being, and I tell a story in the book about an individual named Russell. It's named in the book, so I'll say it. And Russell came to me, and it's a fictitious name, but he came to me and he had a dilemma in that way, and I gave him some counsel on it. And I said, Russell, here's what I'd like you to do. Go back to this person, your boss, and you say, let's review that policy. Is something changed? Show it to me in black and white. I'd like to see it in writing. Let's review your request, what you just asked of me. And if it's, if that doesn't work and the person won't, then you get others in the boat, but you never ever go it alone. You, because here's what happens when there's a trial and they say that someone lacked integrity or was unethical and you were the person that committed it. And you're never going to be able to say, well, my boss said, do it not going to happen. Okay. It doesn't work like that. So if there's any question, there's no question. Get other people in the boat. Let them know that you are not comfortable when you are not comfortable.

SPEAKER_03: 23:51

That's

SPEAKER_01: 23:52

right. And get clarity and clarification on any procedure or policy. Someone is changing on the spot or asking you to do differently. Because the person that owns your integrity is you. No one else owns it. Just you. And the only person that can give it away is you. not someone else. And it's the crown jewel of all the value of components and equations. It's your, and I tell the story about the crown jewels in the book and how they're protected 24 seven. Well, your integrity is yours and you need to protect it 24 seven and never, ever allow someone to steal it from you because you're going to run into that. It's going to happen because it just does in your normal course of life.

SPEAKER_02: 24:36

It does. Wonderful. Quick follow-up question. What would you say to that young leader or that leader overall who is doing and practicing what you trained your sons to do? What I found, and so for perspective, is that when you are the person who is like, they're saying this unethical, giving you guidance that lacks integrity. They just lack integrity. Maybe not widely sometimes, but somewhat to a degree, you know, there's a degree there. And so they're, you know, bringing this to you. And when you do the procedures that you advise your sons to do, and you're getting pushback, you're getting earmarked, there's a level of retaliation. And I would say scapegoat-ism, not a word, but I made it up.

SPEAKER_03: 25:29

How

SPEAKER_02: 25:29

would you advise that young leader? Because what I've seen happen is they end up on the outside of, whatever culture, because if someone is leading and they're getting away with it, let's say he'll join a new organization or you just got promoted to department. And that's what the day, right? You're in a spot now where you're like, this is where, you know, your book comes to life so well, because it's like, now, what did I just step into? Right. Because there, now you, you, you had a happy time when you weren't, when you were down there. at the grassroots, just doing that. Now you're senior leadership. And these people suck. They don't have integrity. And right on the door in front, it says integrity, but they don't have integrity. And so you're pulling out, you know, what you guided your sons to do. Because believe it or not, a lot of people who just love to serve and want to lead and grow, they have this heart where they want to be integrists and they want to serve and do right. But then this culture comes and they're like, well, that's how we do it. Like, what's your, literally, what's your problem? You know? How do you advise that person to take on their career? I mean, for me, I'm just going to say it. I'm out. Deuces. At 45, I can't stay there. Once I try to help, I can't. But they got to stay because they got a family to take care of. How do you advise them?

SPEAKER_01: 26:50

Well, first and foremost, and I mentioned this a little bit earlier, I mentor about a half a dozen under 40 individuals currently. And that's about the rotation I typically have. But in any event, this has come up naturally with them. But this is what I'll say beyond that, and then I'll get to that in a minute. People quit people. They don't quit companies. People quit people. They don't quit companies. And sometimes you have to quit the person to maintain who you are and what you're about, especially when it comes to your values. I'm not being idealistic. I'm being realistic. I'm not being idealistic. And small business owners is much more likely to have leaders with poor leadership skills when it comes to small business owners and entrepreneurship in a corporation. It happens in corporations, obviously. The point is, is that a person who runs a business that constantly pushes people into areas they're uncomfortable with will fail. I used to meet with 100 to 150 small business owners a year when I was a president. I mean, literally 200 or less people. Yeah, I met with the biggies. I met with the multinationals and the large organizations as a senior sponsor, executive sponsor for those accounts. Healthcare, the big healthcare organizations in the country that we serve. I'd go meet with the president of their supply chain and sometimes the president of the company, depending on what it was. But I also met, with 100 to 150 small business owners. People with 10 people, 11 people, 12 people. And inevitably, when I would deal with them, we'd talk about economics and how the world was going and how we were doing for them. But the conversation would always migrate towards business matters. And we would talk about leadership. 50, 60% of the time, I'd say to the business owner, because I'd have a relationship with them, let me walk your floor. and talk to your people for about half hour. I'd go do that. And my questions to those individuals would be, tell me what the most important things are to the person that owns this company, to you. Give them to me. And then I'd go do that. Then I'd sit down with the business owner and go, I want you to write down five things you believe your people feel are the most important. They almost never matched. And they weren't about values. They were always about sales and revenue and profit. And I would say to this young leader, I'd say, well, let me help you with something. The businesses that I see succeed, the businesses I see thrive, businesses that are highly valued, that their people believe in being ethical, customer-focused, and they have integrity. I met with the founder of Zappos.

SPEAKER_03: 29:44

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 29:46

I remember Tony Hsieh, he's back. But the reason Zappos grew, Zappos was an anomaly in many respects. But in the 2007-08 financial Armageddon we went through, there was a financial crash for those two that were too young to remember this. There was a financial crash. They could look it up. And everyone's retail sales dropped like a rock. Amazon, Costco. Even Costco, right? Everybody dropped like a stone. UPS, our daily shipments fell 20%. There was only one company still growing, and they sold shoes, okay? Are you kidding me? They were selling food. They were selling women's shoes. And the reason is because their service and the values they had around serving were congruent between Tony and his people. And That's what mattered to them. Not the money, but just being great and having their customers feel great. Here's what doesn't work. You can't have employees who feel poorly and deliver great service. Doesn't work. You can't have employees you treat with no dignity. They give dignity as a feeling to your clients. Doesn't work like that. I don't care if it's a plumbing company, electrician company, water heater company. Doesn't matter. If the employees feel bad, they will not do great things. And as a leader, what do you want your people to do? I mean, the math is the math. And so where leaders get in trouble the most, and now I understand, you told your listeners, I had a couple hundred thousand people I had to guide on a daily basis. And they were under 17 presidents and the whole structure and I had operation managers and the whole deal. They were the ones who needed me to support their development. That's what they needed. They needed me to support them, to treat them in a way that included them in solutions. If we wanted great outcomes, that's just a natural law. So what isn't appropriate, and I would have to have this discussion every now and then with a CFO or a CIO or whatever, is what's not appropriate in this moment is your ego. Dumb is healthy. It builds confidence. I get all that. But when you think you are expected to have all the answers, the only person kidding themselves is you, right? And know what you don't know. Here's what you don't know. Everything. No one knows everything.

SPEAKER_02: 32:20

Exactly. I love that. Oh, my gosh. I feel like, and first of all, I know I'm going to be listening to this episode a hundred times, and I'm going to have my notepad out. The book wasn't great enough. And then I feel like I want to sit down and have you and I talk about this. I want that for a podcast. I could take a day. There's so much more we could add in there. That is so, so powerful. I mean, there was just so many mic drop moments that we had here. Gosh, I can't wait to see even the clips. They're just going to be lighting up our social media feeds. Now, Mr. Massey, you've seen inside of leadership at the highest levels and you've seen people fall flat, stepping up. Why do you think so many leaders feel lost once they get that title? Why do you feel they feel lost? What's the cause of this?

SPEAKER_01: 33:09

To me, it's easy. They're focusing on the wrong things. That's what they're doing. They're focusing on the wrong things. They're focusing on, instead of being excellent at being the CFO or the HR director or the mid-level manager, they're too focused on pleasing the boss above them. And that's always wrong. I didn't expect I had a staff reporting. I didn't expect them to come to work saying, let me please know today. Okay. I expected them to come to work and be the best CFO, best engineering leader, best department of maintenance, engineering leader as possible. And to come to me for counsel, coaching and a relationship. And so on a daily basis, I would coach, but my role was to be a coach, like any leader or business owners, number one, leadership, It's coaching. When

SPEAKER_02: 33:59

you get it. When you're a leader that gets it, it is.

SPEAKER_01: 34:02

Yeah. So when I would drive into work and I'd be driving into Los Angeles, you know, my commute would be an hour and a half or whatever it was. I would have a conversation with a leader pretty much daily and it would be their time. So I'd call Dr. White, your director of human resources. You know, what's on your mind? I know things are moving fast every day and we don't get private time. And, you know, what's on your mind? And then, and then, you know, you tell me what was on your mind. I go, so who are you developing this week? Not what you're developing. I don't want to hear about what you're developing. Oh, no. Give me the name of the person that you are working with to get them better. Tell me what that's about. And you tell me what that was about. And I go, so, okay. So how are you feeling about that? I mean, you know, what do you think? How do you feel? You know, did you try this or did you, you know, but the point was is the toughest part. thing for senior leaders at the top is it really is lonely at the top. And getting feedback is only going to happen if they invite that feedback. And so I always had a group of senior leaders around me that I'd say, hey, you know, you're not on this team to be giving me nonsense, okay? What I want to know, any time you think I need some feedback, I want you to provide that feedback. And of course, these were leaders that I had a lot of respect for and every person should have those people around them. I don't care if it's a, if you run an electrical company and you have a couple of electricians have been with you for a long time and they're doing a great job, you need to invite them to give you feedback. You need to invite them to let you know when the lines are crooked, right? You want to know that you don't want to know the lines are crooked because five people quit or, You know, people are disgruntled about some policy change. It's going to happen. But the point is, always put yourself in a position to know what you don't know. Always do that. But I would spend time on the phone, planned time, not spontaneous time, with Dr. White. We're going to talk on Thursday. You know, putting your head together, what you want to talk to me about. You know, whatever it is. But I felt my role was the coach. the individual on how leadership should feel, taste, and look, not on the metrics or the spreadsheets. I mean, we're going to talk about the metrics and the spreadsheets anyway.

SPEAKER_03: 36:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 36:31

You know, there's no way around that stuff. But what doesn't get discussed are the behavioral things. And let me just say, this isn't idealism. And this isn't copybook. And anyone out there listening that thinks it is, you don't get it. Okay? If you want your business, you don't get it. If you want high-performance business, no matter what you do, that you need people to feel like they want to provide you high performance because they have your back as their leader. They appreciate what you do for them and you appreciate what they do for you. It is a symbiosis there. Doesn't mean it lacks accountability. Doesn't mean people can get away with stuff that's wrong. It means anything but that. You want clean transparency between you and the people you're leading. whether you're a newly promoted leader or the CEO, doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02: 37:22

Whoa. Oh my gosh. I love it. I love it. It's anything, but it really is when that level of what I would say, it's a level it's, it's professional collective intimacy, but it doesn't lack accountability. It's almost like I have a good, solid growth conversation with my, my employees or my subordinates whatever you refer them to you're going to lose them but a husband and wife are intimate but they still hold each other accountable that's the only way that relationship lasts and they have operational procedures in that household and in that family they have boundaries they have each individual have gifts and talents and roles they're responsible for in that union same thing at work and i go back and forth with And some people, it's like, man, you just made that sound so simple. I'm like, I never said it was simple. I was saying it straightforward. Simple is relative. But this is this and this is that. I love that. So you talk a lot about. you know, a lot of companies promote people based on performance, but give zero prep on people leadership. What's the long-term cost to an organization when they skip the development phase? Because let's just face it, you mentioned it just a few moments ago that they get into the reason why they suffer. It's because they're focused on pleasing the boss. They feel in, well, I'm indebted to him only because they're good at what they do. It doesn't make them a leader unless they're prepped for it. So tell us what that is.

SPEAKER_01: 39:01

You know, in the book I talk about, you know, you hit on a couple of things. I want to, I don't want to get past, but you touched on a couple of things that are very important. And the book talks about the terms and conditions of value-based leadership.

SPEAKER_02: 39:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 39:17

Everyone has terms and conditions. Yes. In all relationships, They exist. Business, personal, and they have to be intentionally articulated. So if I were to say, Dr. Wright, what are the bare bones terms and conditions that must exist in a relationship you have with someone? Give me five things, and you can put down respect, listening, loyalty, you know, what those are. And when those get violated, you know what happens? Relationship fractures. Yes. So when the terms and conditions are clear and stated, Things just go better. Things just go better. You know, when I say, hey, one of the terms and conditions in a relationship is when you believe I'm off course. Stop me. Let me know I'm off course. Don't let a mole become a mountain. A mole will become a mountain. That's one of the terms and conditions you and I congruently agree upon. Business owners and people need to understand those exist with people. And you need to identify them. And you need to speak them. And you need to allow people to understand those very important values. And you talked about it in marriages with kids. It's everywhere. And so the whole intent of that phrase in the book is to get the listener or the reader, excuse me, and your listeners to understand that establishing the terms and conditions in the very beginning of a relationship are critical. And you think about the first time you met your partner's parents or you applied for credit. You wanted your best foot forward. And when I say a leader, that it's the same thing when you meet your team. You need to behave when you meet your team, like you're meeting the parents or your spouse, or you're applying for credit. Introduce yourself to them. Sit down with them. Get to know each other. It's important to get the terms and conditions set in the very beginning. The fact of the matter is, it's not going to be perfect. I actually talk about when I had imperfect moments, you know, and why later as I grew through my career, I had fewer of those to none of those, right? You know, and that's just wisdom with time and growth. But that goes to the very root of us as human beings in nature. Mistakes will happen. But what's more important than the mistake is admitting it, is admitting it. And sitting down and letting the person know professionally that you are aware of it and being in a position to let them know that they have your word. And this is important. They have your word that you will consciously be aware of not allowing that to occur again. Because once people have no doubt of your intentions and your integrity, they will be surprisingly strong in their support for you.

SPEAKER_02: 42:06

Absolutely. That's it. It's just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. I want to literally drop my mic. You talk a lot about trust. It's such an important piece. Not just earning it, but managing it. That's so, so key. How does it build trust when they're still figuring things out for themselves?

SPEAKER_01: 42:25

Trust is a different kind of skill. In the book, I talk about fairness. I talk about trust. I talk about listening. Is listening a skill? Is it a value? I want the reader to ponder that because it's

SPEAKER_03: 42:39

both.

SPEAKER_01: 42:39

You don't listen to people you don't value. And so I want them to put that together, right? So that they understand that they have to value all of their team members when that person has something to say. You know, you put the phone down, you look them in the eye when they go, hey, can I have a minute? You're a leader. You're always supposed to be able to give your people a minute, all right? But in any event, and I give examples of where that goes awry when you don't do it. But when you talk about The leader and the leader's ability to build trust. Trust is something that happens over a period of time, but it's based on one really important criteria. And I'll get to that. You know, if we met and you go, well, Dr. White, do you trust Noel? She'll say, well, I don't know. You know, I don't distrust him. Noel, do you trust Dr. White? Well, I don't know her. I don't distrust her. So that's the baseline. But over time, we're going to interact. Things are going to happen. And here's what's important. that you learn that I am a person of my word, okay, of my word. And I have to say that. I have to say that to the team. Listen, team, you have my word that when something matters to you, I will listen to you. And then something happens. And then a person comes and says, hey, my check's wrong, blah, blah, blah, whatever. No, can you follow up? I'm missing a day's pay. Sure, I'll follow up on your check. And here's the thing. I will follow up on that. And stuff goes on and I don't follow up on it. And then you come to work the next day and I didn't follow up on it because I got too busy. Right. Okay. What I can't do is let you come to me and say, did you follow up? What I have to do is say, hey, when the person comes in, come see me.

SPEAKER_03: 44:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 44:20

And they come see me. And I go, hey, listen, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. An emergency happened. I wasn't able to follow up on that yesterday. And I know you need to get paid. You have my word. Today? Yes. It's about getting this fixed. And when your people know that you're willing to commit your word, even in the worst circumstances, matter of fact, to give you more credit in the worst circumstances, then that's how you build trust. When you don't break your word on the things you agree to do for them, when you give them information that's accurate and you don't allow misinformation to permeate, that's how you develop trust with your team. Distrust emerges when there's an absence of that. Say that again. Distrust emerges when there's an absence of that. Right. You have to intentionally state it to the group, you know, that this matters. We have to be able to trust each other. So you're going to get my word. But when you tell me as a group or an individual that you're going to do something, I need your word. You're going to do that.

SPEAKER_03: 45:26

That is powerful. Well, I just wish that worked at UPS with me.

SPEAKER_02: 45:32

Oh, my goodness. And that is why I'm so passionate about serving leaders. There's a whole, there's some other episodes that we've had that goes back into the making of a leader, sort of, because a lot of times we talk about the separation of work-life, you know, and you leave your home stuff and don't bring it to work. And I feel like that is... I'm going to love having you come in on this before we get into flip the script. Because you don't, people, you don't leave your work stuff and your home stuff where they belong. You just can't because it's you. That's right. Everything in life mirrors you. So a lot of people... Like the way you raise your boys, those values. I mean, I'm sure they're incredible leaders. Of course, they're going to have to figure things out on their own as they get into this real, as they've been getting into this real world. But they had those foundational lessons that now they can apply. They're like, oh, this is why dad said this. Oh, my God. I'm so glad I knew that because I could have been like John. Thank God I didn't end up down that path because I made that one choice. Thank God. Thank you, dad. Thank God. And thank dad, you know. So tell me about that work-life balance when it comes to being that leader, because, you know, why do leaders lead poorly is the question. What is the making of a leader that leads poorly, and what is the making of a leader that excels in leadership?

SPEAKER_01: 46:59

Well, you're talking about an area that goes to the very nature of a business being able to retain its talent, grow its talent, and care about all of that, right? Because here's, you said it already, you know, and it's one of the, it can be one of the most destructive aspects of business, any business. When you fail to recognize that cultivating your people, making sure that they're fresh, making sure they're clear headed, looking for the signs of stress.

SPEAKER_03: 47:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 47:31

That's the role of the leader. And if you don't want to grow a great garden, then don't water it. Okay. Don't do that. If you want people to wither and die, don't water them. You are the leader. You own that. If your people are burning out and they're stressed all over and they're quitting, go look in the mirror. It's not the circumstances they're in. It's how they're being led through them. And again, I had to deal with natural disasters all the time. Fires, floods, hurricanes. And we still had to operate. And it was our responsibility to make sure that 10,000 people behaved properly. Not just two people, right? And the tone, and we used to call it the tone from the top. The tone from the top was going to set the tone, period. You know, the employees weren't going to come to work and go, what tone do we want to set today? That doesn't work like that. And the other thing is, that's right. And the other thing is, leave your personal problems at home. You're at work now. Okay, that's a joke, right? It's the biggest joke. Yeah, it is. If someone's children... are having drama issues or someone just lost a child or the spouse has cancer or the father, the elderly dad, there's something going on. You can't say you don't care about that. You just can't say and expect them to be great for you. It just doesn't work like that. And I'm not saying the role of the leader or any leader is to be a social worker because it's not. At the end of the day, if you don't see the signs and if you don't Address the signs. You know what it means? You know what it means about you as a leader? It means you don't care about them because you don't care about them. And if you don't care about the signs, your people won't care about your signs as an organization. It's a symbiosis, right? It's not being a social worker, but it is knowing that I have employees who are going to work two or three hours a day overtime. Okay. I need to be in a position where David's father is, is now in hospice. You know, he's his primary caregiver. You know, he'll come in and do a great job for the organization. But overtime is probably not what he wants right now. And he'll come and say, hey, can you cut my overtime? That has to be listened to.

SPEAKER_03: 49:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 49:52

That has to be listened to.

SPEAKER_03: 49:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 49:54

And the fact of the matter is, if you want David to stay a great employee for 10, 20, 30 years, then every time there's drama in his life, like his dad in a hospice, you need to pay attention to that. And I had that obviously happen hundreds of times in a 40 year career with individuals. And I'm glad to say that when that happened for people, they felt comfortable saying that to me, whether they were a tractor trailer driver or a CFO and it made everything better. And we were all better as a result of it when it was all said and done, but people don't, have the ability to have all these multi-personalities and behaviors that, oh, I'm just going to leave. You know, I'm going to be in a downtrodden way, but I'm not going to show that at the workplace. It's going to show up.

SPEAKER_03: 50:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 50:44

And you need to be able to have sensitivity and identify it to minimize the impact of it on the workplace.

SPEAKER_02: 50:52

Exactly. Let me tell you, Mr. Newell, I have this red flag here. Anytime I have someone interviewing with me and they tell me that they leave their stuff at home, they don't bring their stuff to work. I'm like, you know, jokingly on an interview one time, I said, does that mean you stay at home too? They're looking at me like, what's wrong with this lady? And I'm like, well, here's the thing, my dear. One of the things we recognize is that you are a human first. then you're more than likely, you know, you said you're married, right? You're a wife and a mother and sometimes an auntie and uncle. You're all those roles. And this is not a role here that you're applying for.

SPEAKER_03: 51:40

That's right. That's

SPEAKER_02: 51:42

right. We understand that all of you matters for all of you. And when there is, when things are off the rail in any part of your life, whether you are consciously aware of it or not, it will affect you. not only how you function, but how our team functions. So we don't want to be in your business. That's not what I'm saying. But understand, we would like for you to experience a safe place where if today you're not mentally able, physically able, or just for even an hour you need to check out, you want to come to us and let us know. And I mean it. I mean, because it's sometimes this would might not be the job for you during this phase of your life. If you might lose a dog and for five weeks you can't function. I am not to judge, but I would love to support you and make sure that we keep the operations going. When I say support you, that might be, we might not have a job. You might get a severance. I don't know what I'm just saying. Right. Because if I know I can help, if I don't know, I think you're just missing work, you're not responsible, you're not accountable. If you're not communicating, whatever steps need to be taken, feel comfortable that you can go to HR, you can come to us as your direct report. That's right. Without even disclosing, just state what you need and allow us to legally and within the confines of what our regulations are, guide you.

SPEAKER_03: 53:12

Yeah, no doubt.

SPEAKER_02: 53:13

That's it, right? Because again, like you said, it's not social work. I remember being a middle manager, one of the seniors saying, but Dr. Elisa, we are not a social service agency. I'm like, first of all, you're a government nonprofit. I didn't say this, but in my head, because I have to think now because my mouth, right? This is a government nonprofit where you're serving people People who are in low-income situations, because you're offering a free program that is valued at almost$12,000 to people who qualify. What do you mean? It doesn't get more social service even that. Right? So you have to not necessarily be a social service agent, but you have to be able to respond with compassion and facilitate and create a way of moving people along if we cannot serve them, but do so with compassion.

SPEAKER_01: 54:11

Well, no doubt. The silliness of circumstances like that, if I can be just straightforward about it, is that when you put yourself in the other person's shoes, right? And you look at how that is working for them. If you were in their shoes, is that what you would want to receive? And generally speaking, that solves a lot of it then, but not always because proximity is important to problems, right? So when people don't have proximity, they can become very, very much a victim of the ostrich effect when they stick their head in the sand. And the role of the leader is, is to handle all things, not some things. It's to pull a person's head out of the sand, including their own if necessary, you know, by getting proper feedback. The point of the matter is that the role of leaders is to make things better, period. It's not to run a self-serviced organization, a self where people just kind of just float around and it is what it is and let's just hope we pick the right people through the front door and it all works in tandem. No. It takes work. You want a great organization? You want to create a great organization like so many entrepreneurs and thought leaders have? You need to do the work. And that means you're going to do the work developing your team. That's what it means. It doesn't mean any more or less than that, whether it's a nonprofit. I mean, I'm the board chairman. I was a board chairman for the Los Angeles Urban League for nine years as a chair. That's not a chairmanship. That's for the faint of heart. Those are tough positions. I was on the United Way board. I sit on the Annenberg foundation today, chapter one us today with young children and literacy, and you're going to run into bumps and all of that stuff. Right. But leadership is really about what it is. It's about leading. It's about accepting the responsibility of the things coming at you and always doing it with a way that is intended to make people People better because when people get better, things get better. When people get better at what they do, things get better. They're not independent. They're not independent. When people get better and they're developed, things get better. And too many leaders don't get that. And they start looking at spreadsheets and bottom lines and sales and everything. you know, whatever it is, or they want to, you know, delegate their leadership responsibility away and, and be, and that's irresponsible leadership. And so all the things you just talked about go there, you know, as I listened to you and that's exactly where they go. But the way out of that starts with taking ownership, ownership for all of it, taking ownership for all, when your people fail, you fail when they're not effective, you're ineffective and put an ownership on. Like you look at Nick Saban, you look at bill Belichick, You think they went and didn't take ownership for the results of their teams? I mean, are you kidding me? Yes, they took ownership. They took total ownership. They didn't get up there and blame people and blame this. No, it starts with that. You take ownership first. Then you develop your team. And then you operate with the highest level of ethics and integrity throughout that.

SPEAKER_02: 57:24

Yes, absolutely. I love it. I love it. I love it. We've busted through so much today. Whoa. I can't believe the time went by so quickly. You're going to have to come back for another episode. We got to talk some more.

SPEAKER_01: 57:39

I'd be happy to.

SPEAKER_02: 57:41

Flip the script is where we get with our guests and get real about a moment when they had to shift their own mindset to get out of their own way or maybe just to move forward in life. So my question for you, Mr. Massey, was there... Every time in your journey, maybe as a leader or even personally, when you had to stop doing what worked before and completely shift how you were showing up, what changed in that moment and how did it affect how you lead today?

SPEAKER_01: 58:11

Actually, that goes to the importance of mentors. You have to have mentors. You know, even Michael Jordan had a coach, all right? Even Tom Brady had a coach, okay? And when people think that they're above that, Dr. White, that's when they get in trouble because we all are going to have a moment where a mentor or a coach who's giving us feedback unabated is going to help us course correct in a moment or in a situation, right? Because, you know, I've had great mentors. You know, if you were to say, you know, Noel, the things you're saying, what you've learned, like where did that all come from? It came from mentors. I mean, candidly. I've had great mentors and mentors of all different persuasions, male, female. And the one thing I tell mentees is, you know, having someone mentor you who looks like you isn't always the best mentor. You know, I won, was awarded. I want to say that differently because I'm very proud of it. But I was

SPEAKER_02: 59:13

awarded the

SPEAKER_01: 59:15

National Alliance of Women Business Owners Man of the Year Award, right? from my engagement in mentoring female business owners and promoting women in the workplace, right? And the fact of the matter is that I would not just mentor men is the point of that. I would mentor women as well. I had female mentors, okay? And I had male mentors. The reason you have a mentor is because you admire what they do. They're successful, right? If you want to learn how to be great at anything, you go and find people who are great at that thing. And they look and come from what they come from, right? There's no one size fits all narrative around that. But too often people don't speak mentors out, number one. And you should always say, well, I really admire how this person is doing X. You know, let me have a cup of coffee with them. And, you know, it doesn't need to be this formal process, but, you know, it's about the mentee, you know, taking initiative with the mentor, right? But I had great mentors. And so when I had a couple of moments to the point that you're bringing up where I was probably offline a little bit in my leadership journey. And I had a mentor one time. He said the most profound thing to me. You know, his name's Jim. I won't use his last name, but his name's Jim. We talk still to this day. And I was in this situation and it was this massive snowstorm, three feet of snow. Supply chain was just crushed. It was in December. our heaviest season of the year and things were going fabulously well. Our plan was going, our people were doing really, really well. Then we got three, we got shut down and we had newspapers on the front porch. We had hospitals calling. We had emergency situations going on. It was incredibly, it was incredibly noisy. And so in the process of handling it, and I'm talking to him on the phone because at that time he was my boss. I'm talking to Jim on the phone and he goes, whoa, no, let me just lay something out for you. And I was at a really advanced portion of my career. My late 40s actually. And he goes, let me just point something out for you. He says, this is a classic situation where you don't get to be human. That's what he said to me. He goes, there's times for a leader when your emotions have no place in the moment. Your professional behavior does. You don't get to be human. You have to push those emotions down. I know you're disappointed that things all of a sudden fell apart because of three feet of snow, and you guys are doing so great, and everything was being executed at the highest level, and now it seems like it's all out the window. Well, you ain't supposed to be happy about that, all right? And that worked. But this is the moment. Yes. Yes. But that's an example of a situation that was also a learning narrative to answer to the question you just asked.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:35

It's a solid one. I had a guest on a few months ago, and she talked about stoic empathy as a leader. And I love that she put that together so well. And that's what he was teaching you. it's, you know, as leaders, we're often confronted, like, I remember COVID, like, that's, I had another level.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:56

Absolutely. Perfect example.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:58

Right? Yes. We had to, we had to be able to lead with heart and compassion, but like you said, keep that straight line. Yes. At the same time. Yes.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:10

I

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:10

hate to almost say the S word, but crap was falling apart everywhere.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:16

That's right. You know, and the people who were told they were essential workers, We're being exposed to the disease.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:22

And now early in the process, there weren't masks, right? There weren't proper equipment. And it was as any situation could be. It was as intense as that could possibly be for leaders and employees. No doubt.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:42

And as a leader, it was, you had to be empathetic. You had to keep the straight line. Sometimes you were scared and you were falling apart. And I remember sharing with her. I said, my thing is I listened. I opened up before we even start work. Cause we were working remotely for a course. My team came together. We came together at seven in the morning and we would start our day. And we had like a good 30 minutes where everybody would share. And it was a check-in. How are you feeling? Before we went into what are we going to do today and how we're going to... Because we were learning what we're going to do in the virtual space and we were plotting and planning. But we had that. And as a leader, I let enough hang that says, you know what? I'm scared, concerned. This, my mom, she's still going to work. And I'm concerned because she is in her 60s. However, I know that over time, we always... find better ways to deal with things and work through things. And the fact that we have each other and we're still here and we have jobs, and we do. When everybody talked about things, we also did a round-robin of what are we grateful for today. There were times they were struggling, but I started off because that was when breath started. know people say i'm just grateful i'm breathing and i'm alive like that this is true yeah and that statement was so accurate and so when you start everyone goes from there but i couldn't let all my emotions hang out but i let some of it and i also had to you know find a way to keep my team positive motivated and then Because this was school. I was working with educators and in an education arena. So now I had parents. And you know what I did? I repeated the same system. The parents, after that, so COVID shut down, happened in February that year, and May school ended, and we had virtual graduations. And the parents wanted to keep coming back to our Friday conversations, like, Dr. Wyatt, can we still keep meeting? And I'm like, Unfortunately, you're not part of this organization anymore. I can't have meetings

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:55

with you. Oh, my goodness.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:56

You all, as a cohort that met each other, if you want, you can exchange information and you all can meet on your own terms. That's a great idea. Good for you. You can buy Zoom now. Yeah,

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:09

good for you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:10

Right. Well, that's still like empathy and that leadership. And just I love what your mentor taught you. I know someone's going to grab ahold of that. One last thing. You've gotten those awards. You're a multi-award winner. I mean, I was on your website and you didn't just get it. Of course, that is a treasured award. We just had at MM360, Mindset Mastery 360. That's our nonprofit that we founded. And we just did the Men of Mastery Legacy Awards. And we're so happy to know you. We're absolutely going to honor you next year because you're going to have some mentorship with me. I know you will. So we honored a man. So you got that significant with so many others that, you know, there was, I mean, I can't, I don't remember, but there were several. But I want to ask you this. What does success look like for you? What really matters to you now?

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:01

When others are successful based on my support and coaching of them, you know, you, and I mean that as heartfelt as I can say is that success to me, you know, when someone asked me about the book, they said, no, what would be successful with this book? I said, this book makes one leader better. That's a young leader and have a successful journey. Then this book was successful.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:28

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:29

Period. Right? Because I've been in a role as a president and before that, where that was the key aspect of my being that was expected of me. I wasn't doing the organization a favor developing our people. It was expected of me. So it's something I've done for decades and the book so far, the comments I've gotten from young leaders, mid managers that have read this book, and it's only been out seven weeks. have been very touching, have been very humbling with the individuals who've read the book and said, you know, I had one message come to me today, Dr. White, from a guy. He's in his late 50s, but he read the book and he said, I bought a copy for all my sons. He's got three sons. He says, I sent a copy to my niece, who is a operations director for DHL. He says, you know, this book, He says, I can't say enough about how this book is going to help them be better as leaders. And so for me, success, that's success, period. That's it. End of story. When someone said, and not just because of the book, but I mean, in my life, my life is about serving and helping other people. That's what my life is about. My life is about doing that. It's about giving. You can't hope to get more than you give. My life is about doing that. So, That's what success is for me at this juncture.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:00

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:01

that's what really matters.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:03

And I must applaud you more than any award. What you're really doing is securing a legacy, that of Noah Massey. And that for me is you, after everything you've done and as successful as you have been, It will behoove anyone to say you deserve to be at the beach every day if that's what you want to do down in the U.S., right?

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:26

This is true. You have

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:27

started a whole new revolution. And that is what I love. You have taken all the wisdom, knowledge, misfires. success, whatever we call it, and you've put it in a package in this book that is now a catalyst for other leaders that will come up to you. So here's a question I have for you. What's your next evolution? What's the next evolution for Mr. Newell? You've led thousands, but what's still calling you higher today? I

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:56

think this will take promoting the book, working with small companies is something that I've been working with small companies for a while now. You know, I've been retired for five years, but I have a number of companies that are smaller, 200 or less, let's say. I'm a business owner, CEO, whatever, where I'm in a coaching format with those individuals. I've been doing that for a while. And now that the book is out, I've been approached by a number of people to do a day seminar, do a conference talk. those kind of things. And I'm going to do that. And I'm going to, you know, for me, life is about giving and it's about doing, right? There's probably not a day that's going to show up for me where I'm not active that way, where I'm just, you know, I'll be, I mean, I travel, you know, my wife and I have 35 years. We travel, you know, my son, you know, we hang out, you know, so I'm living, I'm not, I'm not working 80 hours a day on this. No, I mean, a week on this, you know, so I have a very, very, fruitful, very positive, you know, existence in that I'm able to do what I want to do, which is I can, you know, spend time with my family in ways that are important to me, but I can also spend time helping to develop other people, which is also important to me and the community, you know, and the community, you know, what chapter one organization that we focus on second grade literacy in urban communities. Third grade literacy in urban communities because we know when a child can read at the third grade level when they're in the third grade, no matter their economics, no matter their race, no matter their religion, they graduate high school in the 90 plus percent range. And again, if they can't do that in the third grade, when they're in the third grade, no matter their economics, no matter their race, no matter their religion, they drop out of high school at a 45% clip. And so I love working with that organization. And we're in every major US city, Canada, the UK, Australia, and I'm the global chair for that. So I do a lot of community nonprofit work, which really fills me And I love doing that. So I stay busy. I'm busier. You're doing it your way, but you're staying busy. When I was in my profession, yeah. So it's

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:31

all

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:31

good. Yeah. It's all things I choose to do.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:33

Yes. And that's, I mean, that is the life. I mean, it's just funny. A lot of us younger folk, we want better now. And there are ways to create that. in life now we have a little bit more of those options now but before we go we have this segment called mindset bites to go where i want where i want you to leave our listeners with a bite they can carry into their work weight as they're listening to this episode what's one truth one shift to one habit you wish every new leader would practice from day to day no matter what industry they're in. I'm going to step away from the microphone and you're going to be here in camera by yourself sharing that nugget with our listeners and viewers.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:20

Leaders, you're always being evaluated. You chose leadership. There was a position open to be a leader. You raised your hand and you said, pick me. And you accepted the responsibility. And you're always being evaluated. When you say, I want to be the leader, you have made a professional decision. There's no casual moments in leadership. They don't exist. Don't ever let anyone goad you into thinking they do. The people who are under you, when you're out in the public, you could be in a mall. When they see you walk by, they say to their family, there's my boss. There's the owner of the business I work for. You're the leader. And if they see you in public and you're disheveled and you're unkempt and you're the leader, That's their impression of you. There's no casual moments in leadership. Accepting the responsibility of leadership means accepting it completely and understanding it totally. So finally, just to say it again, you're always being evaluated. What comes out of your mouth matters. Words matter. That's a good thing. It means when you talk about integrity, words matter. When you talk about ethics, words matter. When you talk about honesty, words matter because there's no casual moments in leadership. You ask for the responsibility, accept it clearly.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:49

That's so dynamic. So dynamic. Raised your hand. I love, love, love, love that. I love, love that. So we are at the point where everyone wants to know how to get their hands on a copy of this book. and how to connect with you, whether they're looking for mentorship or they just want to tell you how transformational you've been on this episode of Mindset Mastery Moments. What's your favorite way to connect? Of course, we have it in the description wherever you're watching and looking at this, but they want to know how you would like for them to connect to you and get the copy of this book.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:27

It's pretty easy to get with me. My website, noelmassie.com, N-O-E-L-M-A-S-S-I-E.com. And on there, you'll see my assistant's email, Kayla, K-A Bozeman, B-O-Z-M-A-N, at gmail.com, arranging an appointment with me. It can be done with her, consultation, discussion. Just email her. On my website, there's a contact form, so you can contact me that way. You can also go to Barnes& Noble's website and buy the book. The book is distributed by Simon& Schuster. And it was published by Mission Driven Press, an arm of Simon& Schuster. And also, obviously, on Amazon. And it does come in an e-book as well.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:16

Yes, it does come in an e-book. Yeah, and that's where I got my copy. I'm going to get an autographed copy.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:22

You are.

SPEAKER_02: 1:16:23

So you all heard it here. Congrats, you've been promoted. www.noelmassey.com. It's in the description and the contact information as well. So, Mr. Noel, thank you so much. This wasn't just... about leadership. You have given us a promotion in our mindset to lead, lead, lead with integrity, taking ownership. and just leading, right? This was legacy level wisdom. We really, really appreciate it. It's always titles open doors, but mindset determines what happens once you walk through it. And you definitely have to shift our mindset, Mr. Noel. To everyone listening, if you have been promoted, about to be, or you're leading in any space, do yourself and your team a favor. Grab a copy of this book and promote yourself. Start the promotion from within. Because you know what? I always say the money is at the top and you know we got the lesson today from the get-go he started saying if you don't put in you can't take out above all things keep mastering your mindset think speak do become I'm Dr. Lisa with my co-host Mr. Noel Massey saying good night goodbye and have a good day thank you Mr. Massey

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:39

thank you you're a great host